Is AutoCAD Civil 3D Good for Surveyors?

[EricColburn]

Lately I've been reading a lot about whether or not AutoCAD Civil 3D is good for surveyors. I have also written some on this very subject trying to be fair and positive, because quite frankly I do think that overall - with some reservations and knowing that everthing can be improved upon - this is a potentially powerful land surveying tool.

Unfortunately, some of what I've read, written by Autodesk folks, tends to become very defensive and highlights a major disconnect between what they think land surveyors want and need and what many of us actually want and need. In all fairness, we come from a variety of diverse practices and are not always clear and forthcoming with what we want and need.

So, what do you think? Is AutoCAD Civil 3D Good for Surveyors?

[earlcenac]

Civil 3D is good for Land Surveyors. It is not great for Land Surveyors. The fieldbook format and language is great if you can get the right tool to convert your raw data file to it. Importing the field book, creating traverses, no brainers.

The problem with Civil 3D is with the final report. Most survey departments of Government that require that survey plans be submitted and catalogued require the survey plan information in a certain way. Like my country St. Lucia. Civil 3D has no report creating tool to allow you to create a survey report the way you want it.

For me this is a weakness. A big one.

[Martynas35]

Civil 3D is good for Land Surveyors.

[emledford3]

Civil 3D is certainly a step forward for Autodesk as far as addressing the needs of Land Surveyors. The caveat is that Autodesk, as it has for Civil engineers, is trying to cram too much for everyone into one package.

Historically, 3rd party companies have tried to fill the gap for industry-specific addons and programs to fit the needs of the individual discipline or even specialized firms. Autodesk has responded by purchasing these 3rd party vendors and squeezing them into Autocad. While this approach may make it more convenient for firm to have just one source for its programs, it doesn't necessarily mean that their needs are fully met by a "shotgun" approach. We all unfortunately know how slow Autodesk s to incorporate suggestions into their next releases as well.

The main advantage I see to using Civil 3D in the engineering and surveying disciplines is the standardization that exists for incoming employees and the saller learning curve it presents.

I personally think if Autodesk were to go back to their roots of making Autocad more open-source like, and friendlier for 3rd party companies to write code for their  core product, everyone could make a profit and be happy.

[bhjpls]

I am in the process of building a new computer and migrating from Land Desktop to Civil 3d 2010 and have a couple questions.

Should I use Windows 7 or XP as the operating system? I feel like it's time to make the move and I don't want to get a new computer and be stuck with upgrade compatibility issues down the road.

We use Carlson data collectors. I see there is a free patch to enable coordinate file import, but I'm concerned about the field to finish linework. The Civil 3d demos look good, but I don't yet understand the database functions (even though your articles are very helpful). I'm wondering if the Carlson 2010 add on would be the easier way to go. Any thoughts?

Thanks for any input!

[thigbie]

I use Carlson data collection, Carlson Export for making fieldbooks, Windows 7-64bit and Civil3D 2010.  I've migrated from the famous Land Desktop 2004.  I also tested Carlson on the Acad engine before going with C3D.  I've been at this for about three solid months now and have a few comments. 

The Windows 7-64bit may have been a premature upgrade.  It turned my plotter into a huge boat anchor and permanently disabled my network scanner on the all-in-one HP2840 laser printer.   Make sure you've got drivers before making upgrades unless you want to buy new. 

My three months of working with an open-mind and a solid effort every day have left me mostly disappointed about C3D Survey functionality.  I've come to the conclusion that whoever designs the software doesn't understand surveying and surveyors.  Come on . . . we're not that complicated!  There is one major menu that's missing and really has never been in any autodesk product: COGO MENU.  All surveyors use the basic functions of cogo, it's just never been given to us.  They did however include a handy dandy geodetic calculator.   

I also have concerns with working with parcels.  In the GIS and platting world parcels should work just fine.  But real world provides us with gaps overlaps, misclosures, all sorts of easements going all over the place.   I don't think parcels is going to like overlap slivers (at least on the same "site").   Finally there seems to be a problem with importing data creating linework.  C3D needs a button to turn OFF auto linework when you are forcing the data import to create only the lines you tell it to in the fieldbook and using your own linework code set (kind of a big deal that was overlooked in the program).

On the lighter side, I really like the way we can now import points, handle several codes and lines in 3D with different styles and views.  I also think having the database separate from the drawing was a good idea for most surveyors needs. 

[EricColburn]

It's clear that C3D could be improved on many fronts for land surveyors. It is a love hate relationship at times for me, but generally I think it can be a good program for surveyors and could be a great program with several key improvements.

With that said, I would also add that it is too much to set up, which cost too much in time and money. Many of the problems surveyors are having with C3D boil down to these two things:

1. They have to learn new ways of doing things (both from an overall systemic manner and from a "using the software" manner).
2. Autodesk really screwed up on the survey side of the program (whoever advised them either was wrong or wasn't listened to).

I also use Carlson to collect my survey data and I've never had linework drawn unless it's in the fieldbook. I think there's a setting that is making this happen - I'll look into this and get back to you with an answer.

The parcels question, concerning overlap slivers, etc., is simpler and more complicated at the same time. Got to love C3D! The answer lies in placing parcels like these on separate sites. Create your surveyed parcels as you deem them to be correct on one site, adjoining parcels which conflict on another site and easements on a third site, etc., etc.... At first you might think this is way too much to do (I did), but once done this method actually can offer a lot of flexibility in using parcels and in plan preparation.

There certainly isn't a one stop COGO menu, per say, and maybe this is due to the graphical nature of the program, but there are COGO functions and menus available. This is a good idea for a post as I bet there are a lot of surveyors in the same boat. I'll let you know when it's ready.

Finally, I think you're right about points, in general, as they are really handled well (with a few serious reservations) and if you get a chance check out surfaces and alignments, which do work well. And, thanks for the heads-up on Windows 7-64bit. I had the same experience when I switched to Vista a couple of years ago and had to abandon, or find workarounds for, a few favorite pieces of hardware. Wouldn't it be nice if Autodesk and Microsoft thought about the user more, or at least gave them a heads-up on what to expect?

[ChrisR]

I am in the process of building a new computer and migrating from Land Desktop to Civil 3d 2010 and have a couple questions.

Should I use Windows 7 or XP as the operating system? I feel like it's time to make the move and I don't want to get a new computer and be stuck with upgrade compatibility issues down the road.

We use Carlson data collectors. I see there is a free patch to enable coordinate file import, but I'm concerned about the field to finish linework. The Civil 3d demos look good, but I don't yet understand the database functions (even though your articles are very helpful). I'm wondering if the Carlson 2010 add on would be the easier way to go. Any thoughts?

Thanks for any input!

My last employer preferred Vista, he's not ready to upgrade to 7 yet, but he's shucked XP and goes with Vista.  I'm not sure what his likes and dislikes are about it, but he prefers simplicity overall, so I'm sure that has something to do with it.